Filter when k <> m

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ccamposrp
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Filter when k <> m

Post by ccamposrp » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:36 am

Numbers
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12

V = 12
K = 8
T = 6
M = 7

Group 1 = 01 02 03
Group 1 Filter = 2 Numbers

01 02 ... or
01 03 ... or
02 03 ...

I wish 100%
T = 6 if M = 7
in the filter condition.

How can I do this ?

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lottoarchitect
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Re: Filter when k <> m

Post by lottoarchitect » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:09 pm

Hi ccampos,

whenever you introduce a filter in guide mode (or use a mother), you introduce the possibility one particular combination that is necessary to make an 100% unconditional cover unavailable. Ability to make an 100% unconditional cover using guide filters is completely dependent on the blocks allowed by the guide filters/mother used.

So, this cover may be possible to make at 100% or not based on what blocks it can allow for the production of the wheel. It takes some analysis to check if this can be made as 100% however, I can't do that analysis right now. Still there is nothing magical here, if the available blocks allow that construction to 100% unconditional coverage, you'll get that at some point.

In coverings involving guide filters/mother coverings, we primarily are interested in the FD % coverage achievement but this requires the condition M=K to get evaluated. However, when M<>K we cannot evaluate the FD %, we are only left with the initial unconditional coverage which as you can see, quite often cannot result in 100% no matter how we approach this. Evaluate this cover's quality as the maximum unconditional coverage it can achieve and the info gathered by the hits production analysis (Display->Hits) as this is the only information available for this type of coverings with M<>K.

EDIT: the above cover can be made to 100% unconditional like below in 12 blocks:
01 02 04 05 07 08 09 10
01 02 04 06 07 08 11 12
01 02 04 08 09 10 11 12
01 02 05 06 09 10 11 12
01 03 04 05 06 08 10 12
01 03 04 06 07 09 10 11
01 03 05 06 07 08 10 11
01 03 05 07 08 09 11 12
02 03 04 05 06 07 09 12
02 03 04 05 06 08 09 11
02 03 04 05 07 10 11 12
02 03 06 07 08 09 10 12

and it was made in 1 second. so my question now is, what triggered this question in first place? Do you have issues with WG over there and can't produce that?

EDIT2: On a second reread, I understand you didn't mention the filter as guide here, so I assume you can't get 100% at the filter evaluation. Still this can be made as 100% unconditional with that filter to 100% as normal in 12 blocks as well pretty easily with default optimization settings. What results do you get?

ccamposrp
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Re: Filter when k <> m

Post by ccamposrp » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:30 pm

It's ok.
To think that one of the reasons for using a filter is to reduce the number of blocks , keeping [L] at 100%

In this case. You cannot reduce the number of blocks.

Or am I mistaken?

Example with K = M
C (10,6,5,6) = 14
01 02 03 04 06 08
01 02 03 06 07 09
01 02 04 07 08 10
01 02 05 08 09 10
01 03 04 05 07 09
01 03 05 06 07 10
01 04 05 06 08 10
01 06 07 08 09 10
02 03 04 05 09 10
02 03 04 06 09 10
02 03 05 06 07 08
02 04 05 06 07 09
03 04 07 08 09 10
03 05 06 08 09 10

What if I set up a group
Group 1 = 01 02 03 with a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 2

can be reduced from 14 to 9, keeping 100%

01 02 04 06 07 08
01 02 05 06 09 10
01 02 05 07 09 10
01 03 04 05 08 09
01 03 04 06 07 10
01 03 06 07 08 10
02 03 04 05 08 10
02 03 04 08 09 10
02 03 05 06 07 09

This is my question.

if K <> M the reduction does not occur.

ccamposrp
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Re: Filter when k <> m

Post by ccamposrp » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:59 pm

I will rephrase the question and my doubt, I believe it can help you understand what I ask more.

forgive me for english, using google translator.

V = 15
K = 8
T = 6
M = 7

Numbers:
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 12 11 12 13 14 15

Filter 1:
Numbers: 01 02 03 04 05
Values: [2-2]
Guide [x]

[x] enable number groups

All the combinations I want you to have
2 numbers in group 1 (filter 01 02 03 04 05)

and 6 more numbers between (06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15)

How many blocks do I need to have 100% 6 if 7 with this filter?

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lottoarchitect
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Re: Filter when k <> m

Post by lottoarchitect » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:07 pm

A requirement to be able to evaluate the FD % is to have M=K. Under that condition, you can reduce blocks from an unconditional 100% cover, like the C (10,6,5,6) = 14 with the introduction of additional filters (guide/mother), similar to the initial M condition. It is impossible to reduce blocks via guide filters/mother in that manner when M<>K.
However, the benefit of making filtered versions of coverings is the ability to take advantage of special cases, like in your initial post if you can assure 2 correct numbers in your 3 numbers of the group, this wheel is much more rewarding than any other equally sized wheel. There is still benefit in making even just plain filtered versions of wheels, provided you still maintain the initial coverage of the unconditional wheel without the filters.

To your 2nd post, there are two possible coverage evaluations, the first is the unconditional which can always get computed and the other is the FD % coverage which requires the condition M=K and at least one filter in guide/or a mother covering.
Check this guide to understand the concept in depth if you haven't done already.
http://forums.anastasios-tampakis.net/v ... 654&p=2791

You have unconditional 100% 6 if 7 which needs 12 blocks. FD % cannot get computed since M<>K. The benefit here is you can take advantage of the group if you manage to have two correct in there, which will provide more wins compared to a general (c12,8,6,7)=12 wheel of equal size.

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lottoarchitect
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Re: Filter when k <> m

Post by lottoarchitect » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:12 pm

Correction for your post, you mention C (10,6,5,6) = 14
Yes this definitely can be reduced with FD % given M=K. What you care about is to reach FD to 100% (also enable the check box filtered over overall). Unconditional coverage obviously will not be at 100% but the assumption here is your guide filter is expected to be true and under that assumption the wheel can be reduced from the initial 14 blocks of the unconditional wheel. How much? Make the run to get the FD wheel.

ccamposrp
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Re: Filter when k <> m

Post by ccamposrp » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:15 pm

OK. correct.

see my case in a lottery here

T = 6 => 100% ??
is this possible in any way on the wheel? : https://prnt.sc/qyna7d

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lottoarchitect
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Re: Filter when k <> m

Post by lottoarchitect » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:55 am

This has been already answered at my first reply, the logic behind these constructions. If it can be made or not, entirely depends on what blocks are allowed or not by the filters. One quick way to see if it can be made to 100% is to add quite more blocks than needed for the unconditional case. This will make a rapid build and if it can be made to 100%, then it can be done with normal optimization. If after adding all these blocks the system can't get to 100%, then almost certainly it can't be made to 100% no matter what.

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